TRANSCRIPT SOURCE    READER

RON COOPER, THE COOPER CULTURE

RECORDING SESSION DATE  24 JULY ’25

TIME  11 ET, 8 PT

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GLOBALBusinessNews.net

COMARKETING PARTNERS

San Diego, California

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0:05 – Ron Cooper
Hey, good morning, Ken. Ed, how are you? Morning, Commander. How are you? Hey, doing great. Just great to have you with us, Ken.

0:13 – Ken Lloyd
Always nice to see you. I really just find you such an interesting person. I do have to tell you one quick thing. I knew another jet pilot whose last name was Cooper.

0:24 – Ron Cooper
Oh, my gosh. Yep.

0:25 – Ken Lloyd
Gordon Cooper, the astronaut. Oh, Gordon, yes.

0:27 – Ron Cooper
I would like to tell you I’m related to him. I don’t know that for certain. To go back 48 generations to prove that. Yeah, yeah.

0:36 – Ken Lloyd
You’re a great guy just like you, I’m telling you. And there’s something about you jet pilots, I don’t know.

0:43 – Ron Cooper
Well, yes, and some people say that’s an arrogance and it’s a whatever. But, yep, there is some commonality. That’s great. Absolutely great.

0:52 – Ken Lloyd
He’s a terrific guy. My daughter and his daughter were on the same soccer team. Oh, my gosh. So nice.

1:48 – Ron Cooper
And just very briefly, we are in the process of staging our house for sale. The photographer is there. Today. And it’s we’re on our third realtor that the previous two realtors acknowledged they have no idea how to market our house. Just very briefly, we’re way out in the country. It’s a very large house, 10,000 square feet. We have four total buildings here. I’m talking from a separate office building where Marty and I used to live. But at any rate, it’s to a degree because of the 103 acre country. It’s very unique. And I’ve told the realtors, there are only 12 people in the universe who would even want our property.

2:34 – Ken Lloyd
So it’s up to them to find those 12. That’s it. That’s their job.

2:39 – Ron Cooper
So there you go. Yep. Good. Where are you moving to? We would, we’ll be moving to Cambridge, Maryland, which by boat would be maybe 30 minute drive by car. It’s about two and a half hours. But I don’t know how familiar you are with Maryland and But it’ll be on the east side of the Chesapeake Bay. Right now, we’re on the west side of the Chesapeake Bay. It just happened that a daughter and son-in-law purchased a property and the adjoining property was also for sale. To help avoid some kind of a yokel moving in next to them, they asked if we would purchase what end up, it’s a nine and a quarter acre property. We purchased that about, I’m going to guess, two years ago. We will eventually demolish the house, totally rebuild. It’s been 50 years since anyone has done anything to the property. It’s waterfront, and I’m learning what a critical area is. And in Maryland, it is, I mean, it’s radical, all of the stuff, all the hoops you have to jump through. It sounds like a wonderful move, though.

3:44 – Ken Lloyd
How nice for you and the family. That’s great.

3:47 – Ron Cooper
Well, no, it’ll all be good. Yes. So, well, Ken, just before we get started, did Ed, I guess, maybe gave you a brief update and what he and I, okay, just very briefly, Ken, I have a weekly recording with Ed. You may be aware of that. And it’s Thursday. We just changed the time to eight, your time. And so, I thought what I would do for the next, who knows, 12, 15 episodes, is I’m going to be very vulnerable about myself, my past life. The purpose, total purpose of which Ken, and it aligns with everything you represent, is we need, our leaders need to know that there are those like me and who I was, they are in, as likely, they are in their organization. I am the kind of person, a past life, I would have never divulged anything about my life because quite honestly, I didn’t know how to define it. And I didn’t know what you may think of whatever I would say. You may ridicule me, et cetera, and so on. So my thought was the best thing to do is just remain silent and look at my shoe tops and just watch the clock turn, be a clock puncher and be nothing more than that. And I would say in the first few decades of my life, I was living well below average. My potential, and I don’t mean that to be any arrogant statement in it. But I had things in my life that were, I now know I had very poor mental health. But, Ken, what I’m going to try to do is appeal to leaders to make sure they know that there are people like me that are in your organization, and Ken, you know it extremely well. You’re the expert in this. That, no, give me a daily appraisal. And if not literally daily, frequent, ongoing appraisal of where I am. And the greater the trust we have in each other, the greater the opportunity, the propensity that I will tell you, or you will be able to draw from me, what’s keeping me to perform at my God-given design potential. But Ken, that’s a lot of what I wanna talk about, and I’m gonna be what I consider to be appropriately vulnerable. I’m not here to focus on the past, but I just want the listeners to know enough of my past to know that, yep, there are people like I used to be right now in your organization, and they’re not performing at their maximum potential because, and then fill in the blank with any number of reasons. As always, sounds extremely interesting.

6:36 – Ken Lloyd
And I’ve just noted all the times I’ve heard you talk, you’ve had just great information. And I’m looking forward to this discussion.

6:46 – Ron Cooper
Now, I appreciate that, Ken. I guess in the end, you and Ed will know as much about me as Santa Claus does.

7:00 – Edwin Cohen
What is your purpose of full disclosure? At this stage of your life and at this stage of this TV show. Okay, yeah.

7:16 – Ron Cooper
Ed, I’m very comfortable telling you the way things used to be for me because the way I used to be, I feel very certain, and I’m certainly not a fortune teller, that there are people in your organization that are like me. Not every organization, but there’s some people who are not performing at their design potential because it may be some form of PTSD. And we’re not gonna disclose it. Some people will. Some people will say, I’m not well, I’m not okay. I would have never done that, never. And so I will tell you there are people in organizations like I was. And so I want for the leaders to develop the confidence and the trust and we’ve talked about it, psychologically safe and culture, to help people like I used to be to feel free to express themselves. And if either one of you at my earlier age would have asked me, what’s wrong with me? I would have told you, I don’t know. I don’t even know how to put it in words. And so there are many people, Ed and Ken, that leaders, you’re gonna have to discern. And I’m not, I’m certainly not saying in any way being a fortune teller or anything like that, but hey, you need help and you may not be the right person, the best person, but you might be able to refer me to someone who can help me.

8:51 – Edwin Cohen
Okay. So let’s, again, I’m going to push the button now.

8:55 – Ron Cooper
So there may be some repetition, but that’s fine.

8:58 – Edwin Cohen
Okay. So just as you know, the three of us are just about the same age. Yes.

9:07 – Edwin Cohen
Does that interest you in any way regarding this broadcast that’s going to start soon about being old timers talking down to the rest of them? Well, and I’m going to tell you, Ed, we are not old timers talking down to because where I’m I’m very serious with this.

9:28 – Ron Cooper
Those who share our values, It doesn’t matter what age you are. You can be a teenager. You can be anywhere between a teenager and where we are and have more life experience than us. But if you share our values, you genuinely care about people. You want to have a connected, I use the term connected relationship with people. We will relate to these people. I am hungry to learn about people. And so it doesn’t matter what age you are. You are. If you have that characteristic trait, then you will resonate with us. Our age, any age difference becomes absolutely irrelevant with the possible exception, we have life wisdom and people want to know our life wisdom.

10:17 – Edwin Cohen
Okay. With that, I’m going to jump to the coffee pot and I’ll be right back.

10:24 – Ron Cooper
Okay.

10:25 – Ron Cooper
No, but I know, Ken, in some organizations that there’s some aspect of dysfunctionality or some people wouldn’t even call it dysfunctionality, but hey, we’re doing okay. We’re just okay. We’re average. Well, how about if we have a culture to where we can be above average, where you can attract and retain employees and have a 90 plus percent but a retention rate because Ken, I know you care that that’s, that’s who you are. That is what the community knows you to be. And people want, people are willing to be in an organization. Even if, even if you can’t pay me as much as maybe someone else can, Hey, I, I, I will function best when I’m in the presence of those whom I know genuinely care. Standby.

11:22 – Edwin Cohen
Oh, by the way, before I do that, do you guys have to jump off? At a certain time? No, I’m good for whatever time.

11:31 – Ken Lloyd
Yeah, I think you booked it till nine o’clock West Coast, which works for me perfectly. It’s now 8.11 here.

11:38 – Edwin Cohen
So if you want to go a full hour, that’s fine with me.

11:51 – Ron Cooper
When we feel that we’ve covered the topic, sufficiently, we’re done.

11:57 – Edwin Cohen
Okay, guys, this is going to be good. Really. Think of a name for this a brand for this particular episode, or this series. Because, you know, I’ll know what you’re doing once we end it. But you know what the whole scope is the gameplay, the screenplay is, if you will, right now. So let me know. Just send me a note.

12:26 – Ron Cooper
So when it’s time to promote this thing on LinkedIn and wherever. All right.

12:32 – Edwin Cohen
I’ll send you several possibilities to hopefully get people’s attention. I’m sure. I’m sure it will. So I purposely put this beach scene. This is the north coast of San Diego. Cardiff by the they call it, just north, maybe a half hour north of downtown San Diego, on a beautiful day, of course. We walked there frequently. I’m sorry, I just had to get the eyeglasses set. Okay, guys. This show could reach a million viewers, you know, not today, but in the next month the two.

13:43 – Edwin Cohen
Ken Lloyd is in LA, and Ron Cooper, the cooperculture.com is on the East Coast in the Maryland area, outside of Washington, D.C. Welcome, Ron. Welcome, Ken. Thank you, Ed.

14:03 – Edwin Cohen
I want to introduce again Ron Cooper, who is an executive trainer, leadership instructor. His background includes 26 years of executive level within the US Air Force, including being a flight leader, and actually was the top gun. I don’t know whether Tom Cruise took lessons, but certainly whoever wrote that script knew what Ron Cooper did in his earlier life. But now it’s different. He is a desk pilot, but he is a man with principle and just wonderful expressive knowledge, willingness to share. Let’s welcome Ron. Thank you. Ed, thank you. And Ken, it’s always good to be with you.

14:57 – Ron Cooper
Ed, for your audience, I think it’d be beneficial to discuss a little bit of my background and I would hope to tell your listeners impressive on your listeners, viewers up front. What I’m saying and what I will say over the next few episodes, yes, it’s about me, but I’m not trying to promote me in this. What I am trying to do rather is let your folks know what I used to be. And I believe now, many decades later, as I’ve reflected on what used to be in the first two decades of my life, It has taken me a long time to try to piece together why was I the way I was. And I will tell you that as you make the analogy of Tom Cruise, Top Gun, and so forth, yes, I will tell you that I became that type person because I had a dream that started maybe when I was five years old. And boy, I tell you, that dream became a focus. Some people might say obsession. I think I’ll stay away from the word obsession, but it became a focus, a very burning desire. But I hid that desire for two decades because, and as I think back on the way things were, I think a lot of it had to do with my father and he’s no longer here to be able to express himself. And certainly if you have any questions, questions as I go along, but please feel free to interrupt, ask questions. But in the context of my father, and I’m not here to blame at all, that’s not my point. But I think if my father were here right now, in the context of words matter, he would probably be able to tell me that he is a product of his culture. His father, my grandfather, passed away when I was a year old, I’m told, so I never knew him. But my grandmother, I know her personality, and she could be domineering. And it’s very likely he was a product of that culture at an early age. And in hindsight, he could legitimately say he didn’t know any better. He was just carrying forward some of the things that were part of his culture. But in the context of words matter, here’s what became very for me that my father would tell me frequently, I thought you knew, or you should have known. And I thought, and I have an analytic mind now as I did then. I’m wondering, who would have told me? How would I have known? Where would I have Read it? Whatever the topic was. And I could never determine that. And my father was the type of personality that, and I think Again, he would say he’s just a product of his parents, but you never ask him, well, dad, where would I have known that? Because that would be questioning him and he would snap back. And I just knew, I did not want to face it. So for me, the best thing to do is just remain silent. And after hearing that enough times, I churned in my mind over and over again, I have to intellectually deficient. I should know, but I don’t. And I could never determine where I should have known, how I should have known, nothing like that. But I want to tell you, I churned over and over and over and over again. Clearly, there’s something wrong with me. And so whether that is a form of PTSD, maybe. I’m not here to parse words. I’m not trying to say anything that nature. Ed?

19:02 – Edwin Cohen
Yeah, you know, I’ve had a similar kind of experience within myself. But because now at this age and experience level, particularly the success of this program over the, as it’s developed over the past five years, I’ve learned so much from you, you guys. And, you know, that I have gained a different perspective on life and how things work or my own capabilities to, if I don’t like something happening here and it’s within my grasp, I’m going to think it through. I’m going to figure out how to make a change so that I’m more comfortable. And now at some time earlier in my life, I had a similar kind of experience, not with my dad, but with bosses. Who denigrated, to use your words, you know, put me down, put me in a corner, or keep me what they probably thought was on track to do or learn something. And I had no idea what the hell they were talking about, or what the grasp should be. So just wanted to say I totally understand what you’re talking about.

20:19 – Ron Cooper
Ed, thank you. And I know that Dr. Lloyd is a master. He’s an expert at this. But here’s what I would say that I would summarize what you’re saying. I want to help leaders with awareness. I want our listeners, our viewers to be aware. Please be aware that there are the Eds and Ron in this world, and they might be in your organization. Who knows what was said to or about us some time back. The person could have easily said, oh my gosh, how could you possibly interpret what I said the way you did? But I did. I did interpret it that way in any number of life experiences could have formed a perspective that, gosh, Ed, I interpreted what you said to me in that way. Now, do I have the freedom to ask what you meant by that, or do I feel you might try to intimidate me because I’m even asking? If the latter, we’re not gonna talk about it. And I will tell you, Ed, that there were two decades where it took me that amount of time to get through the feelings I had because I just don’t know if I can, I don’t know how I can express myself Because, again, you might make fun of me. You might ask me why I think the way I do. And no matter what my reason is, you may come back and say, well, I’m going to interpret whatever your feelings may be that I’m still inadequate. Somehow, someway, I’m falling short. Therefore, better to remain silent. And those type people exist in the world. Organizations. And so they may be in our families, but they may be somewhere within our circle of friendship.

22:22 – Edwin Cohen
Ken?

22:23 – Ken Lloyd
One of the most destructive things you can say to another person, whether it’s spouse, child, a co-worker, a direct report, an employee is, you should have done X. All that’s really telling them is that you failed, you did it wrong, you, you, you. It is absolutely undercutting the person in terms of their personality, their strengths, their self-image, because you tell me I should have done something, that’s not helping me. I can’t turn the clock back and do it differently. If I should have done something, there are other ways to talk about it. Let’s talk about what happened here and see if we can work out a way so that you don’t get into this kind of situation again. What are the specifics? What can we do to build as a person? You should have done something. In other words, you failed, you, you, you. And when people hear you constantly when they’re getting feedback, it’s very parental. It’s like scolding. You should have done this. You did this. We have to be as, not just as managers or leaders or partners, as humans, be careful with those kinds of expressions. And that’s one that is particularly destructive to use. Telling people what they should have done is something just what we try to How to avoid that? Is there a more constructive way to proceed with whatever the point is? The answer is yes. But to get away from the you should have is something that really, to me, that’s one very important takeaway already from Ron and what will continue to be a very informative discussion. Thanks, Ron.

23:59 – Ron Cooper
It’s very helpful. Again, that is very, very intuitive, informative, and it’s all a part of awareness. You should have. Yeah, you failed sometime in the past. And yeah, the focus is on failure. And implicitly, some of us say, no, you’ll never recover from that. You are a failure. And sometimes Ken would actually think, wow, I can’t even believe people like you can think that way. Well, some of us do or did. And so I’m telling you, I’ve overcome that part of my past. But I want everyone to know that there are those who have been told, and they believe that, I’m going to say is deeply embedded into subconscious, various conversations, various people, various instances can bring up that, well, that just triggered, or some people say activated, that thought, I am inadequate, whatever. I mean, that covers a whole expanse of I am inadequate and likely always will be until I am with the right number of people and a topic for further conversation on other episodes. I’m going to tell you, there are four men who were extremely instrumental in my life who helped me overcome the past. And they functioned as a mentor, not formally, but they accepted me. And I will tell you that acceptance, do you accept me? Can you accept me? Are you willing to adapt to me? I’ll be it however awkward I am, but if you are willing to invest in me, and we are with several If you’re willing to invest in me, in the four of the most powerful words, my opinion in the English language are, I believe in you. And if we- This is wonderful. If we project that, and we don’t even have to speak it. My grandfather was a third grade dropout and very much reserved. He would, a man of few words. But he had mountains of wisdom. He would just be willing to talk with me, and he wouldn’t tell me, I believe in you. I mean, we just didn’t use those kind of words. But just the fact that you’re willing to talk with me, and I feel comfortable asking questions of you, I know you’re not going to come back to me with some demeaning, degrading, some type response, no, you’re going to come back with a factual response. And I said, man, I tell you what, oh, I feel so comfortable around that. And are you willing to just now, in hindsight, are you willing to accept me? And I hope you are because, yeah, I’m hurting inside. I didn’t know it at the time. Decades later, I was able to figure it out. And what is it about my life? I mean, It’s taken me a long time to figure it out, but I’m not here to blame anybody. But Ken, as you said, if we are acutely aware of some words, some expressions, the body language, facial, the tone, if we are acutely aware of how some people can interpret those statements and is largely personality dependent, perspective, Do we care enough to even want to know what it is that is operative in a person’s life? And I will tell you that, Ken, and it fits right in with the book you’ve written, Appraisals for Dummies, but as we feel free to work with people frequently and we have an open conversation, after a while, people like me will open up and I’ll volunteer information to you because I know I’m safe. I know you’re not going to use it against me. And I just feel certain that you will help me, that you’ll give me honest appraisals. And through your very honest dialogue, your appraisals, I will get better because I’m hungry to learn. I am actually hungry to learn. But let me tell you something. Early in my life, I would have never asked a question. Never. Because only stupid people ask questions you’re supposed to know and so you have to make me feel comfortable when I say you have to when you feel when you’re making me comfortable to ask questions I will and I’m learning because I am hungry to learn I I’m genuinely hungry to learn and I knew I could ask my grandfather any question of any kind in third grade dropout but he He was astute, totally astute with money, money management. And I learned, and my whole life is based around, my financial life right now is based around what I learned from my grandfather. And he was so quiet. And I am very grateful. I had the opportunity to write a letter to him and thank him as I reflected on his positive impact in my life. And I said, well, Granddad, did you get my letter? And here’s this will give you an idea of what his personality was. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Nothing more than that. But, you know, but if you knew his personality, you would know there’s a there’s a chapter of, you know, thank you. Thank you for letting me know. And everything’s good. But, you know, he was just so quiet, reserved, but yet very, very respected man. In the financial world, he was president of the local bank and was voted president emeritus. But just a man that just had great, great wisdom. One of four, my uncle, my grandfather’s son, my high school football coach, my father-in-law, Marty’s dad, were four men who were extremely instrumental in my life, functions not formally, but ostensibly as a mentor, but they each accepted me. That was the core principle above all else. But I’m interested in any thoughts you have on just accepting people. And yes, maybe I’ll be however awkward we are, but I think it’s a matter of discerning that, are you worth my time at all to talk with? And invest any resources in. My hope is you’ll see some value in me, but you may have to draw that out of me to determine if I’m even worth the investment to work with.

31:23 – Edwin Cohen
With that, I want to introduce a friend who’s in San Francisco, although it doesn’t look it. Maryann, welcome. Thanks, Ed.

31:32 – Maryann Hrichak
Sorry I’m late. No, no problem.

31:35 – Edwin Cohen
I want to introduce Ron Cooper, who’s in the red shirt and Ken Lloyd, who. So you’re in San Francisco and Ken went to Berkeley. So that’s some information. So where’s Ron? And Ron is in Maryland, Southern Maryland, about 90 minutes south of Washington, D.C.

32:00 – Maryann Hrichak
So. Oh, my gosh. OK.

32:02 – Ron and Marty Cooper
Calvert County, about an hour south. Of Andrews Air Force Base. Okay, cool.

32:07 – Maryann Hrichak
You must be sweating. I’m freezing.

32:10 – Edwin Cohen
Yeah, we are. We’re sweating hot humid here.

32:13 – Edwin Cohen
So Maryann, tell the world, this is recorded now, recording who you are, what what job you have today. And thank you for being here. Now you and I have known each other 20 years. And every so often, we get back together again. So 20 years.

32:31 – Maryann Hrichak
We’ve known each other for 20 years. Wow. OK, so I have a kaleidoscopic life. Let’s put it that way. I am a social and cultural anthropologist by training. I have been involved with immigration work and immigration law, which I’m doing some consulting with now. And I also do consulting with a State Department program called Tech Women, which brings women from the Middle East, Africa, South and Central Asia. Time this year, Albania, to work in Silicon Valley companies on a five-week mentorship program. And they’re all women in STEM. It’s truly the best thing ever. So, and then I have all sorts of other little projects going on. I edit, I write, I, you know, I have this portfolio life. Let’s put it that way.

33:20 – Edwin Cohen
Ken has a PhD in organizational developmental psychology. I’m set I’m butchering this one today, I think. Why don’t you self-intro? Hi, Maryann.

33:28 – Ken Lloyd
I actually grew up in San Francisco. You grew up here? Oh, yeah.

33:33 – Maryann Hrichak
I’m a third generation San Francisco, actually.

33:37 – Ken Lloyd
I can’t imagine what it would be like to grow up in this wowie zowie city.

33:43 – Maryann Hrichak
Yeah.

33:43 – Ken Lloyd
I just Read today that the summer, this is a cooler summer than usual. It’s the coldest summer. I don’t know.

33:49 – Maryann Hrichak
You know what Mark Twain said? I know.

33:52 – Ken Lloyd
The coldest winter he ever spent was the summer in San Francisco. Right. Yeah, it’s true.

33:57 – Maryann Hrichak
That’s exactly what it is. Yeah.

33:59 – Ken Lloyd
Just real quickly, my background, I did go to Cal and then went to UCLA for grad school, got a master’s and a doctorate in organizational development, organizational behavior. And I was in consulting for a lot of years, taught part-time over at the MBA program at UCLA at the Anderson School and joined one of my clients, worked there for about 18 years as the VP of planning and development. I’ve written a bunch of books, mainly dealing in one way or another with people at work. I’ve always been interested in that. Ron talked about his early passions and interests that led him to where he went in his career and where he is. And I was always interested in the world of work, but the people side of it, and training, development, growth, communication, and trying to work productively and more successfully in organizations. And that was That was the path. So I’ve written a bunch of books in one way or another that deal with that. And I’m fascinated to hear about what you’re doing. And it’s such a wonderful global approach that you’re taking, and the opportunities you’re presenting to these young people absolutely sound wonderful. We need more people like you. We need more like you, and like Ron, and like Ed.

35:18 – Edwin Cohen
We’d have a wonderful world here. Kumbaya. So please, exchange messages, website, email. This, this show is part of a series, Maryann, ongoing series with Ron Cooper and me and whoever else might fit in. And it’s, it’s, it’s a psychological safe place, this global meeting room, what I affectionately call this broadcast. And Ron is an executive trainer. Just to recap real quick here, because then we have to move on. Years, 26 years as a jet fighter pilot, squadron leader, boss man, the guy that Tom Cruise portrays in movies, the the authentic, genuine article, Ron Cooper. And so this is about his growth pattern. He’s, of course, a consultant now and looking for business like all of us, but the idea is to self-explain who this person is. And my format is conversational, as you know, and thank you for experimenting here. The show is not rehearsed, well-organized, but not scripted on purpose to keep it spontaneous combustion of mental health. And mental health, Ron, let’s go beyond grandfather and uncle. Talk about the football coach.

37:01 – Ron Cooper
My high school football coach. I was not a real talented athlete. I was not the star. But There was one incident that had a profound impact on me, and it related to what I now reflect on my personal insecurities. One of the football players, let’s just say, threw up at a goalpost. It was what was then a two-a-day training in the hot, humid summer here in Maryland, and he threw up at the goalpost. And I thought, oh my goodness, that had some such an impact on me, I thought, I don’t know that I could live through the embarrassment if I were the one who were the subject of attention of something like that. You’d have to know me, what I used to be. I was so insecure. I don’t want to do anything to draw adverse attention, but if I did the same thing, I just knew that would. But I took that to heart and I said, I will train, I will do whatever I need to do during the summer. I worked on a dairy farm and that was my grandfather, my uncle.

38:19 – Unidentified Speaker
But after, who knows, 12, 14, whatever number of days, hours of working on the farm, I would run from my grandfather’s home to the farm, which is about five miles in return.

38:31 – Ron Cooper
So that was almost 10 miles of running. And there was a hill that I would run wind sprints and it was self motivated. I just thought I cannot do and I I didn’t know. I just said I’ve got to do something to avoid. Throwing up at the goalpost as this one player did in the high school football coach. I don’t know how he learned of this, but he highlighted me and said Ron. I was I was Ron then that Ron you may be a the only person who has earned a starting spot on the football team, the high school football team. And I thought, oh my goodness. I mean, I could go two weeks without talking to anybody because I was so incredibly insecure at that point. And to have the high school football coach give me laudatory comments like that, I thought, oh my goodness, that’s so out of character. It seems, but those were the, that along with my grandfather, uncle, that was one more thing, one more positive that, well, gosh, he never used the words, I believe in you. But those are the kinds of things as I think back on it. And I did have a starting position and everything worked out just great. But I will tell you, that’s just one of the major impacts my high school football coach had on me. He was a very well-known person, Penn State University, and is well known throughout Maryland. And he was the hallmark of credibility with football. And for him to make a statement like that about me, that registered, boy, that became a foundational statement that, wow, now, that’s just one more positive thing to overtake what was a huge negative that it was embedded in my self-conscious. And so it was that type of positivity that these four men had on me, and they were not in any form or fashion trying to gloat. I mean, they were just genuine. They were willing to talk with me. And so that was, I would take Ken in the context of human relations if you’re just willing to speak with me. That’s just huge. And I just didn’t know who would in the context of speaking with me was the hope that you’re not gonna look for something negative about me. And these four men, yeah, they were always offering constructive advice, but I never interpreted that has negativity toward me. It’s here’s what you can do better. I’m hungry to learn. I am hungry to learn. And so I took everything Ed and Maryann and Ken into context that, yes, I’m hungry to learn. Please tell me. And I will take what you say and act on it because I was then and I am now a person of action. Give me a call to action. And when I’m with the right people, I will, I’ll do whatever I need to do.

42:01 – Edwin Cohen
So the idea was that not to be a showboat, not to use braggadocio to talk about how great you are, you just kept to yourself and did what was required, that you instinctively knew what needed to be done?

42:19 – Ron Cooper
And yes, and I will tell you, Ed, in that context, I instinctively knew what needed to be done. I did not want to have to be told what to do on the farm. I was hoping, I just hoped, gosh, can I intuitively know, can I be proactive? That’s another very operative term of me. Can I be proactive to do? And as I learned from my uncle and grandfather, high school football coach and father-in-law. Yes, I felt very comfortable being proactive, and I’m not trying to garner your approval for that, but I felt for me, boy, I am just wholly satisfied and fulfilled. And my grandfather and uncle on the farm would comment, not profusely, oh, you did that? Wow, that’s, yep, that needed to be done. And I thought, wow, that, Right there, that was totally fulfilling to me. And you’d have to know just how poor my mental health was. I now know it as mental health was at the time, just how poorly I thought of myself. But to have someone say, how many seconds did it take to say, oh, I’m glad you did that. Oh my goodness, that was monumental to me that I did something right. Ken, in the context of awareness and people, yes, our speech, our manner, our tone, everything, people process what we say and do in various ways. And I would hope people who are viewing and listening to this would say, I need to learn people to know how best to adapt to other people.

44:06 – Edwin Cohen
Maryann, when you’re dealing with these people, uh, women from, um, countries whose culture is not expressive. You really have to be the shrink, I guess, to these women who come out of their shell to express or you need to be so aware of how these people are behaving and are you actually getting through to them about what they should be doing or without being instructive, but helpful. Yes, because it’s a whole group of women.

44:42 – Maryann Hrichak
For most of them, it’s their first time in the United States. And the program is only five weeks. So it’s very short. It’s very intensive. They often room with someone from another country that they have never been to. For some of the women, it’s their first time out of their home country, their own home country. Some of them are well-traveled and have PhDs. It’s a whole mix of things. And I think because of the short-term nature of the program and the fact that the program is so busy with them going to different workshops, having jobs, having to work on a special project, things just happen that you don’t expect to happen. And they all come out amazing. It’s just really amazing to see how this program has influenced and inspired so every time. Okay, Ron?

45:36 – Ron Cooper
Maryann, I’m gonna guess that some women, I know there’s some cultures who treat women as being inferior, and do you have to know that? I mean, do you learn that of their culture and then adapt to that, that you’re coming to our country not being inferior? No, you have value? Do you have to, so to speak, build them up to help try to reinforce their character in that context?

46:06 – Maryann Hrichak
Not really. These women are powerhouses and they know their base and where they come from And this program now is the 14th or 15th year. It’s been going, I can’t remember, but it’s been a while. So the momentum has built and they have spoken with past participants before they even get to the United States. So they know the intensity of the program. They know what the expectations of them are. And really, it’s just, I wish all of you could meet at least five women from this program, because they’re all rock stars. Bring them on the next TV show that I do.

46:45 – Unidentified Speaker
I can’t do that. Now, Maryann, would you categorize your women as the top 1% type thing, or are they very characteristic of all women?

46:56 – Ron Cooper
No, no, no.

46:57 – Maryann Hrichak
Definitely top 1% to 2%. In their They’re all STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math. And I feel like chump change when I’m with these women. They have PhDs, they have families, they have kids, they have jobs. And I’m like, how do you do all that? They just do. They don’t even think about it. And then once they go back home after the program, we have all these little WhatsApp groups by country and by interest and stuff. People are constantly, constantly offering support and guidance and feedbacks. And, oh, you need a job here. Check this thing. Oh, your kid needs this. Check this. It’s really one of the most amazing things I have ever, ever encountered. There’s a woman that here that came in October, September of 2023 from Gaza, and she’s still here because she can’t go back to Gaza. And it’s just it’s a horrible situation because her husband and two young kids are still in Gaza and they’re starving because there’s no food. And what can she do for them? She’s in anguish every day, understandably so.

48:10 – Ron Cooper
But I think in that context, Maryann, I love working with people who, and we mentioned earlier in this session, hey, you work with me and we will somehow figure it out. We’ll figure out a way to make things And yep, it’s a very difficult situation in the context of family being in Gaza. How do you feed them? Well, we’ll somehow some way work through this that I’m not a victim of, but I will overcome. Those are the kind of people I love working with.

48:41 – Maryann Hrichak
Okay. I’m not sure she would be appropriate for you. She’s actually now in Qatar with her sister, because we extended her visa as long as we could, and then we just couldn’t extended any longer. So she had to leave. The other caveat is that she has an 18-month-old son that was born in the United States. So one of the reasons she left was to go back. She got accepted to three universities here in the Bay Area. So her plan was to go and get a student visa. In order to do that, she had to leave the United States to do that. And then that president of ours put a kibosh on student visas, which has now been reinstated and all that kind just everything bad that can happen to this woman has happened to her and I feel my heart goes out to her every day multiple times a day and thank God she has that 18 month old son because he is the joy and light of her life and he’s like a little Buddha baby it’s just it’s he’s just really her solid rock as she calls him but now even in the context of quote everything bad is she the kind of person that, yep, I’ll just, she can’t stay here, but she will do.

49:50 – Ron Cooper
She will go wherever she has to go. I mean, is she the kind of person who is going to somehow work through this? And there may not be a quick solution. It may be a marathon, not a sprint type thing. It’s definitely a marathon.

50:05 – Maryann Hrichak
And yes, she will work through it. I have seen her. I have known her since September of 2023, when she came to the U.S. And she was pregnant. And now she has an 18 month old child. And now she’s in Qatar with her sister. We talk probably every couple of weeks. So now I’m trying to use some connections to get her work in Qatar, because some of the other tech women are also in Doha, so they can help her out and get her some leads, just so she can have a quasi normal life.

50:37 – Ron Cooper
And I will tell you that what you just described of her lines with, I spoke of it several weeks ago, the Top Gun mindset. I will overcome. There’s nothing, nothing that will keep me down. That’s not an arrogant attitude. It’s just that, hey, I will persist. I will keep going because somehow, some way, I will achieve the greater good. So at this point in my life and kind of maybe her, I don’t know. I have no idea how this is going to work out. Somehow, some way the greater good is going to happen because I will not give up. I do not. I will not. You just I’ll keep I’ll check in with you periodically. And sooner or later, you’re going to hear I did it. Here’s and I’ll tell you later how I did it right now. I have no idea how I’m going to do it. But my attitude, my persistence is I will overcome. I will achieve the greater good.

51:39 – Maryann Hrichak
She she’s right there. She will achieve the greater good.

51:42 – Ron Cooper
And I will tell you, that’s a part of the Top Gun mindset. And it takes a while with some of us. It takes a while to work with us to help keep that alive in us. The negativity can suppress some of us. I’ve been there. And so, again, I just want to be genuine enough with people. Hey, I’m not here to focus on the negative of the past, dwell on it, so forth. No, I just want you to know, hey, in two minutes or so, I’ve been there, done that, but here’s how we overcame here together.

52:20 – Maryann Hrichak
We will. Okay, thank you. Ken?

52:22 – Ken Lloyd
I think it’s wonderful that the woman you just described has this little bundle of joy, this little love, this 18-month-old, that no matter how dark the days are, this child puts a smile on her face, This gives her a wonderful feeling, a sense of purpose. And here she is with her sister. While none of this is the ideal situation, just as Ron is saying, light is going to follow all of this darkness. It’s going to happen. Time is going to have to pass, obviously. But it’s so nice that she has elements in her life for which she’s grateful and can and continue her growth and development. It’s obviously not ideal. It’s not perfect. I’m very happy for her that she has this beautiful, wonderful child. It just makes her smile when she thinks of this one. And she’ll get there. She’ll be a Top Gun. It’s just gonna take, it’s gonna be a longer flight. And that’s the reality of life. Of the world today. To look early on some of Ron’s points and the points you’re making as well, it shows the importance of providing people with recognition and not perfunctory, hey, every five minutes, good job, you did this, but really recognition that’s earned, that’s merited, that focuses on aspects of their life that are important to them. And by the same token, to avoid this needless, criticism and negative feedback or use of language, as we talked earlier, by saying, well, you should have done this, you should have done that, to really recognize the power that our words have on people. I mean, I can think back to Alamo Elementary School in San Francisco, and we were doing a spelling thing in the classroom, and the teacher got to me and used the word effect in a sentence, said spell effect. So I spelled it, I spelled spelled it correctly, and she then said to me, good guess in this nasty tongue. That I’ve taken with me all these years. Words matter. They can build us up, make us feel better, help us get on track, and they can really hurt, hurt our self-image, hurt our confidence, hurt our whole feeling of who and what we are. So it’s so important to really be careful in what we say and how we say it. And just to go back now to your point, Maryann, I just wish the best for all the people you’re bringing over in particular for this individual.

55:03 – Maryann Hrichak
But it’s going to work out for her.

55:06 – Ken Lloyd
It’s just going to be a while.

55:08 – Edwin Cohen
Inshallah, as they say. Inshallah. Ron, let me ask you a personal question, if I may, and shut me down if you don’t want.

55:19 – Unidentified Speaker
No, no, nothing too personal.

55:22 – Edwin Cohen
Your son-in-law, your daughter’s husband. Yes. What’s your relationship there, and does it mirror what you’ve just been describing?

55:31 – Ron Cooper
He’s Italian, and so I would say that… Good. I’m part Italian. Okay. The relationship, I sometimes wonder. Now, he is very reserved, and he knows that I’m extroverted. He knows there’s that big, big difference. He is the kind of person who being reserved is not comfortable being in larger crowds. I’m very comfortable in this type. And so he and I to a degree are very different. And so there are times I wonder because he’s not real expressive, you know, where am I with you? And is our relationship okay? I do know that with our autistic 18 year old granddaughter, He can be very short with her at times. And so we are trying to work with our 18 year old autistic granddaughter to help her. But I know I need to stay in my role of grandparent, not get in the way of his parenting. But I hope that I can express life wisdom in some of what he is doing with her is parallel to my background, that anytime you raise your voice with her, that is a data point. And Maryann, this lady you’re speaking of, I just project that, yep, her 18-month-old son, she knows everything positive she does. Every positive attribute is going to have a very positive impact on him throughout his life. She knows it. So she’s thinking there may only be 1% positive in my life, but that’s where my focus will be. And I will do whatever I have to do to remain positive because I know that is going to affect him and his mindset as he is going through life. And so she may be thinking, I want to make everything positive. I want to help him with resilience and so forth. And so, hey, what I do, to the various life circumstances is he’s cataloging all of this, even though he’s 18 months old, he’s cataloging all this. And so Ed, long answer to, I wanna do what I can to be the right person at the right time as a grandparent to help our granddaughter. But there are times I think that, well, okay, your reaction to your anger was a data point with her In fact, at times she has said, Daddy threatens me. Now, I’ve asked and the response very recently has been, I don’t think he would hit you. And I think you don’t think so. I mean, is there 1% possibility he would? And I have made it known with our daughter that I will do whatever I need to do to protect our granddaughter. And she has had us on speaker phone, and I hear the anger, and I’ve told them as succinctly as I can. In the context of our granddaughter, if I feel her anything may be threatened, his anger and so forth, I will do whatever I can. First, I’ll try to talk with him. And if I can’t reason with him over the phone, then I will call for police and whatever I need to do to help protect our granddaughter. Long answer, Ed. But that’s where we are.

59:12 – Unidentified Speaker
Your honesty and completeness is beautiful and so unexpected for this program. And that’s one of the reasons you’re moving close, I’m guessing.

59:23 – Edwin Cohen
Well, and everything’s going to work out fine.

59:27 – Ron Cooper
But I will tell you in the context of neurodiversity, autism, ADHD, OCD, and the like, Like every day is a learning experience. There may not be any two days the same. There may not be any two people who are equally autistic that are alike. And so with every day, it’s a learning experience. And I think she has a very viable future.

59:53 – Unidentified Speaker
He does not think she’s employable. And I think, wow, that is a major mindset that I would hope that I can help him overcome because she, our granddaughter certainly would process that.

1:00:07 – Ron  Cooper
Did my, my adoptive daddy doesn’t believe I’m employable, but I believe she is. It’s a matter of one more time of adapting to people in looking for their potential, developing that potential.

1:00:23 – Edwin Cohen
This is a story about Ron Cooper and his, what drive and about the consulting business that he has, a successful consulting business, as you probably already guessed, it’s very successful, and what makes the man. And this is the purpose of this program. And Ron, I’m just loving this dialogue and conversation. It’s making great TV. And so now I want, as we come to, the next 15 minutes or so and close. I want you to feel free to take over and drive this thing to where the audience will have more takeaways and get ready for the next episode next week.

1:01:18 – Ron Cooper
No, thank you, Ed. And I would tell your viewers, listeners, what are the takeaways? Look for the positive in people. I believe virtually everybody has something positive about them. Now, I do believe that we need to stand on values, principles, those things that are long lasting, and we should never compromise that. In other words, I certainly don’t want to exonerate behavior that if you might be a threat to me personally or something like that. But let’s assume that that’s so far fetched that we’re not talking about that. But in the context of employment, in context of family, always look for the positive. And you may be frustrated, but I believe there’s positive in everybody. And do look for that. And to go along with Dr. Ken Lloyd, that be willing to I’m going to say assess, be willing to have free and open conversations with people and everyone, every process can improve. I would hope that we all know that. And if you tell me in the right tone, I will want to improve. I will always want to get better, but be aware that your tone, there are some words that I can process in the wrong way that even though you meant it well, I processed it in a negative way. Dr. Kim expressed that. And we need to be aware. I want to say awareness as we are hungry to learn. Awareness. Yeah. The tone, the words, different things. As I’m aware of those words and I’m aware of personalities and people, we’re all very different but we’re unique. If we choose to understand people and how we’re unique and we choose to adapt to, we can get along well with each other in a topic for a different time. We can be vehemently disagreeing on any number of things ideologically, what’s happening in the world and so forth, but I would hope we never take that to the extreme of denigrating each other. That’s a very operative term with me, I can never get to the point of hating each other. Let’s vehemently discuss, disagree if we do, but let’s go, you know, go socialize after. Let’s go eat. Let’s do something together that I’m never going to allow any differences between us to be a point of departure. I always want to learn from you. But Ed, those are just some of the things that are, I think, takeaways for your viewers.

1:04:13 – Edwin Cohen
This is a book that Dr. Ken Lloyd has written. Ken, do you have a chapter in this about performance appraisals and phrases? That’s the theme.

1:04:23 – Unidentified Speaker
As it relates to our guest here speaking. Yeah, yeah.

1:04:27 – Ken Lloyd
Actually, the book deals quite heavily with feedback, what we call continuous feedback, which is avoiding the once a year sitting down and giving employees some feedback, but rather meeting regularly, literally once every week or two scheduled to talk about how things are going, how’s the progress toward the goals, how is the performance, what other questions are coming up, and to look for issues of mental health and other kinds of problems that might be going on so that by the time the formal appraisal arises, employees already know how they’re doing, the feedback is really far more forward-focused. We even use the word feed-forward to be focused on coaching and development, career development. So it’s not just saying, hey, you did this wrong,

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